Raid group building

[Bane]

 I found this list on EJ. It makes sense to me and I thought I would share it.

For an MT group, which I would construct first:
1. Warlock with Blood Pact is still king.
2. Paladin with Imp. Sanct Aura for +6% healing.
3. Paladin with Devotion Aura (Imp. preferred).
4. ToL druid for +25% spirit healing.
(if one of the above is not available)
5. Shaman for Windfury, SoE totems.
6. Feral Druid for Imp. LoTP.

The last two become more important if aggro is of more concern than mitigation for the encounter.

Next I would construct a Caster group.

Caster DPS Group:
1. Moonkin (stack with fire mages > other mages > warlocks).
2. Ele. Shaman for totem of wrath, wrath of air (could the names get more confusing?).
3. Shadow priest (More important for warlocks, less for mages).
4. Other shaman for Tranquil Air.

For a Melee DPS Group:
1. Enh. Shaman for Unleashed Rage, totems, spot heals.
2. Feral druid Imp. LotP.
3. Warrior for battleshout.
4. Hunter for TSA, Furious Howl, Feriocious Inspiration, what have you.
5. Another Shaman for tranquil air(more important with more warriors, irrelevant with more hunters, pick and choose).

Healer group:
1. Resto shaman for Mana tide.
2. Shadow Priest for Vampiric Touch.
3. Imp. Conc. Paladin.

The biggest commodity for party wide buffs will still be shaman; I'd stack them with your "heavy-hitters" on non-trivial content to ensure the most return on investment.

[Prilosec]

Putting together groups all comes down to knowing what skills are available to each class, who in the raid has them, and how they would benefit other members of the raid. You will very rarely have the "perfect" raid composition, and it won't be possible to make everyone happy, but part of the responsibility of the raid leader is to be able to handle criticism without negatively affecting the raid.

[Voodooz]

Very nice list Stabby!

Yes, it is gonna be really hard to get synch'd groups all the time especially during rebuilding like this but that is something that will improve with time.

[Khellendross]

I found this list on EJ. It makes sense to me and I thought I would share it.


For a Melee DPS Group:
1. Enh. Shaman for Unleashed Rage, totems, spot heals.
2. Feral druid Imp. LotP.
3. Warrior for battleshout.
4. Hunter for TSA, Furious Howl, Feriocious Inspiration, what have you.
5. Another Shaman for tranquil air(more important with more warriors, irrelevant with more hunters, pick and choose).


The biggest commodity for party wide buffs will still be shaman; I'd stack them with your "heavy-hitters" on non-trivial content to ensure the most return on investment.

Rogueless Melee groups ftw!

Its a great list, and good base for following for Raid Group Setups.

[meattshield]

i dont care where i am.. as long as i get my heals : P

I trust you guys to make good groups. Hell you guys know this content much better then most of the people in the guild. SO i am sure u can set up groups : P

[Giller]

2. Paladin with Imp. Sanct Aura for +6% healing.

This is confusing me.  How old is this guide?

[Bane]

I dunno how old siddin, I found it on elitist jerks as I said. Its a good base

[DoomSlave]

hey there isn't a rogue melle dps class on there whats up with that? 

[Nick (Morgosh)]

Its  a nice Idea but sites like Wowwiki and bosskillers both tell you what classes are needed. but nice idea stabby...

[Dawayne (Grimreapzor)]

Its not so much the "classes" need, it is more about the "group" makeup. Who buffs who to maximize raid dps, healing.

[magus]

i know im gonna get my head chopped off here, but what the hell. lag is, has, and always will be dps heavy, no denying it and damn proud of it. however, having so much focus put on our dps classes whom are so far ahead of the curve of our new tanks and heals  is assenine. i am so tired of the its all about me bullshit. once again raids are being ruined be individuals who only care about themselves and their own f'n numbers.

you guys can get yourselves buffed to hell an back, balls out dps for 20 sec, die, then seit and watch a 5-10 min boss fight and be completely useless to the RAID! im not shure what its gonna take for you people to realise that these are 25 person raids. that means 25 people working and functioning as one. sometimes ur gonna get the perfect group setup, and othertimes ur gonna be screwed. i am honestly so tired of all the dps whoring and its all about me bullshit, im going to flat out stop inviting repeat complainers to the raids.

i know u guys want to succeed, i want to succed possibly more than anyone, but not at the cost of those that come and do their jobs w/o complaint. week in and week out people get screwed on group placement and never complain, at least openly. and then theres the matter of buffing, for god sakes if you are responsible for putting a buff on someone, and u are repeatedly missing their buff, talk to someone in the guild and find a mod that will help you out with this. buffing takes way to freaking long and we do nothing but waste time. im done, i cant rant any more today, but rest assured everything will fall in place, progress is being made weekly, sometimes slow, sometimes blazingly fast. no matter what we will lose and gain people as we go, until that wonderful time that we have that magic number of folks and personalities (and how different they are) that will make up the LaG guild. raiders, non raiders, and people inbetween... you are all a part of something great, dont forget that, and also dont forget that no one person makes us, we make lag's wow guild what it is.

[DoomSlave]

  awwww does mag need a hug its ok buddy *hugs*

[Giller]

This is why we bring Shadow Priests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNbFYSXON6Q

[Donnie (Arne)]

As a former priest, I used to hate watch people die because they stayed in melee range of a boss, pulled aggro because they are trying to get top dps, or stood in a spot for an aoe burst.  If a dps or any other class isn't surviving then they should be replaced with someone who can survive regardless of gear.  If you fall in to one of these categories repeatedly, then you do not know how to play your class regardless of what gear you have.  My advice to healers....stop healing or trying to heal the idiots until they lrn2play!  If you need to prove your dick size join the arena tourney not a raid.

[Khellendross]

This is why we bring Shadow Priests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNbFYSXON6Q

Siddin you're my hero.

As a former priest, I used to hate watch people die because they stayed in melee range of a boss, pulled aggro because they are trying to get top dps, or stood in a spot for an aoe burst.  If a dps or any other class isn't surviving then they should be replaced with someone who can survive regardless of gear.  If you fall in to one of these categories repeatedly, then you do not know how to play your class regardless of what gear you have.  My advice to healers....stop healing or trying to heal the idiots until they lrn2play!  If you need to prove your dick size join the arena tourney not a raid.

That's why I care more for Damage than DPS. DPS is a numerical number of what you're doing to a mob while you're targeting it and its alive or you're alive. If you hit him with a 4k burst and die right after, you're rocking the meters with 4k dps and less damage than a resto druid.

You stay alive the whole fight and beat the shizzle out of whatever you're attacking. your overall damage will reflect the same.

[Nick (Morgosh)]

/agree 100%

people can learn from you...

This is why we bring Shadow Priests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNbFYSXON6Q

Siddin you're my hero.

As a former priest, I used to hate watch people die because they stayed in melee range of a boss, pulled aggro because they are trying to get top dps, or stood in a spot for an aoe burst.  If a dps or any other class isn't surviving then they should be replaced with someone who can survive regardless of gear.  If you fall in to one of these categories repeatedly, then you do not know how to play your class regardless of what gear you have.  My advice to healers....stop healing or trying to heal the idiots until they lrn2play!  If you need to prove your dick size join the arena tourney not a raid.

That's why I care more for Damage than DPS. DPS is a numerical number of what you're doing to a mob while you're targeting it and its alive or you're alive. If you hit him with a 4k burst and die right after, you're rocking the meters with 4k dps and less damage than a resto druid.

You stay alive the whole fight and beat the shizzle out of whatever you're attacking. your overall damage will reflect the same.

[Donnie (Arne)]

Its good you say it khell, from the few runs I had with you in SSC you were always dying.  Good to see you presumptively don't anymore!

[Dawayne (Grimreapzor)]

Oh believe me i know grim's roll in raids........ MANA BATTERY.......

[Donnie (Arne)]

Oh believe me i know grim's roll in raids........ MANA BATTERY.......

Mana!Mana!

[Khellendross]

Its good you say it khell, from the few runs I had with you in SSC you were always dying.  Good to see you presumptively don't anymore!

I still die, but i still do more damage than most, due to not dying in the areas (bosses) where damage matters. occasional trash deaths will always happen.

[Alex (Riptearkill)]

by now you should realize that living by the dps meters on a boss fight is bad. the most important aspect of a boss fight for any dps is surviving even if your dps is even several hundred below other members you still do far far more total damage alive than doing a short burst and dying. Sure at the end it's fun to post meters and see who rocks them or to weed out certain people but it isn't worth threat gambling to boost your dps by a little bit. I just looked at this post now and our current melee group is me (slam warrior) you will find that slam is far superior to fury because blood frenzy gives a 4% dps buff to all physical dps which also increases tank threat you can also put out pretty decent dps with this spec i'm nearly always in the top 5 or even 1st or 2nd, after that we have a ret pally, you would be surpised how good they are late game, imp sanc aura is 2% party dps and then improved might is nice, then an enhance shaman, are you guys aware of twisting? It's where you can have windfury and grace of air totem at the same time, it really is a nice buff. After that we usually roll with 2 rogues. Feral druids and BM hunters also provide nice buffs but rogues are the class that can really take advantage of the buffs. Offering no buffs of their own they always are top dps in my guild and usually around 1700-2000 dps. Unfortunately i really havent payed attention to other groups i hope this helps. I mentioned the part about slam spec because you seem to be fury khell. You can put out a lot of damage this way but the raid benefits a whole lot more with blood frenzy. I was fury until we got into BT then I switched and saw that it was better before that i'm not sure if there is gear to support it but i assume that with the new OP badge gear and season 4 looming you can piece together an excellent MS set i dont remember SSC/TK having any armor pen gear : /
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t22705-dps_warrior_compendium/
http://www.maxdps.com/
the latter is great for everyone, just click your class put in your gear/spec what items you have access too and it should be able to tell you how much dps you gain per point of stats and will tell you what should be an upgrade, i've been told it isnt perfect but if you have any inkling of what's good for your class and take it with a grain of salt it should be a huge help to find upgrades.

[Donnie (Arne)]

i love you alex....near the end of my wow days I tried to preach the slam build, but, besides Dio, no one seemed to agree.  People don't see the bonus...they just assume they are badasses regardless of windfury and frenzy!  I have seen absolutely sick results if your heavy on physical damage.

[Alex (Riptearkill)]

4% physical damage increase for hunters, rogues, enhance shaman, feral druids, warriors of any kind, and ret/prot paladins is pretty big when its up all the time and far outweighs any loss by the person when switching from fury to arms especially when extra damage equates to extra threat generation on the part of tanks

[Nick (Morgosh)]

Dio LOL now theres someone with a future... I hope he burns in hell with his "soccer mom" wife

[Bane]

LOL I love khell .. but he still dies all the time.. rofl

[Roadill]

Regardless of whether the elitistsjerks info is 'old' or 'new', it's a format used by every Successful   raiding guild out there.  It would probably be in the best interest of seeing the guild being a Success for people putting themselves in charge of raids to focus more on this format, which has proven itself to many guilds to be the most likely one to increase overall dps for the entire raid as well as the overall fight survival rate, versus one that's only going to pad certain individual's epeens.

[Khellendross]

4% physical damage increase for hunters, rogues, enhance shaman, feral druids, warriors of any kind, and ret/prot paladins is pretty big when its up all the time and far outweighs any loss by the person when switching from fury to arms especially when extra damage equates to extra threat generation on the part of tanks

I honestly doubt you'll ever see me in a raid as MS prior to me getting Cats Edge.

Its not worth it til then.

[Alex (Riptearkill)]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&n=Objectivism
i'm not using cat's edge, i'm not even using a sword i've been using this and it's been working out fine i still do a ton of dps if you have enough people for a full melee group and have a couple of hunters it definately is worth it. You really don't do all that much less damage if possible pick up a s3 maybe even s4 weapon maybe the sword from kael or from ZA there really are a lot of options for a 2her you just have to wait until one drops and once it does you should be set. Cataclysms edge has never dropped for us despite having archimonde on farm for about 4 or 5 months now and downing him weekly. That is the best 2h weapon a warrior can get until kiljaeden as far as i know i wouldn't wait for that it could be a while. If you want to see the numbers that show it is an overall dps boost for the raid check out elitist jerks they have all the math set up to show you at what point it becomes better.

[Alex (Riptearkill)]

btw as a side note for raid dps our guild has starting paying people 500g to spec leatherworking and level it up to 350 so they can start using  http://thottbot.com/i29529
when you have 4 people in a group that use these you get a permanent 80 haste rating. drums are easy to make and very  cheap to buy, they come with 50 charges it's up for 30 seconds and cd is only 2 minutes
/p *** Using Drums of Battle ***
/in 30 /p *** Drums of Battle faded ***
/use Drums of Battle

clicking this macro will both use your drums and announce when they are used and when the run out making it easy to switch to the next person you should check it out

[Khellendross]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&n=Objectivism
i'm not using cat's edge, i'm not even using a sword i've been using this and it's been working out fine i still do a ton of dps if you have enough people for a full melee group and have a couple of hunters it definately is worth it. You really don't do all that much less damage if possible pick up a s3 maybe even s4 weapon maybe the sword from kael or from ZA there really are a lot of options for a 2her you just have to wait until one drops and once it does you should be set. Cataclysms edge has never dropped for us despite having archimonde on farm for about 4 or 5 months now and downing him weekly. That is the best 2h weapon a warrior can get until kiljaeden as far as i know i wouldn't wait for that it could be a while. If you want to see the numbers that show it is an overall dps boost for the raid check out elitist jerks they have all the math set up to show you at what point it becomes better.

And whenever that becomes better for me than just saving 100g a week respeccing i will look into the MS Slam Build, however at this time it would not Benefit the raid or myself to allow that to happen. I also know for a fact that once in the area you seem to be raiding that while it is a benefit to the raid overall, it is possible to surpass that usefullness as fury. So like i said. When the time comes. we'll see, now stop preaching at me ^_^.

btw as a side note for raid dps our guild has starting paying people 500g to spec leatherworking and level it up to 350 so they can start using  http://thottbot.com/i29529
when you have 4 people in a group that use these you get a permanent 80 haste rating. drums are easy to make and very  cheap to buy, they come with 50 charges it's up for 30 seconds and cd is only 2 minutes
/p *** Using Drums of Battle ***
/in 30 /p *** Drums of Battle faded ***
/use Drums of Battle

clicking this macro will both use your drums and announce when they are used and when the run out making it easy to switch to the next person you should check it out

That there may end up getting patched soon. so that you can only have one drum effect on ye every 2 mins. would suck, but yeh.